Exploring History Through Women’s Lives: A Conversation with Lori Ginzberg and Jenny Shaw
In this Q&A, historians Lori Ginzberg and Jenny Shaw discuss their latest books, Tangled Journeys: One Family’s Story and the Making of American History and The Women of Rendezvous: A Transatlantic Story of Family and Slavery, with W. Hodding Carter III Executive Editor, Debbie Gershenowitz. Their work uncovers the lives of women—both enslaved and free—across time, place, and social status, challenging the way we think about historical narratives. This Q&A is adapted from the full conversation which you can watch or listen to here.
Q: What inspired you to write these books?
Lori Ginzberg (Tangled Journeys): I was trying to rethink the grand narrative of American history and one day, while wandering around the Library Company of Philadelphia, I stumbled upon the story of Sarah Martha Sanders, a 15-year-old enslaved girl purchased by a Charleston slave owner. Her story, and that of her descendants, explicitly demands readers listen to the noises in the silences of the archives and consider what American history would look like if this family were at it’s center.
Jenny Shaw (The Women of Rendezvous): My book started with a single church record from 1683 Barbados, listing three women—one white, two enslaved—who had children with the same man. What intrigued me was not the man, but the women’s lives. Overtime, it became very clear to me that there was a story to be told.
Q: How do your books challenge conventional historical narratives?
Lori Ginzberg (Tangled Journeys): Women’s and African American history are still too often relegated to “boxes” in textbooks. We have done decades of work, yet the overarching historical narrative remains largely unchanged. Tangled Journeys explicitly demands readers listen to the noises in the silences of the archives and consider what American history would look like if this family were at it’s center.
Jenny Shaw (The Women of Rendezvous): I wanted to highlight how women’s lives—not just those of men—shaped colonialism. The enslaved women I studied not only survived but actively navigated complex legal and social landscapes. This challenges the idea that history is only about elite men making big decisions.
Q: How did you handle the gaps and silences in the historical record?
Lori Ginzberg (Tangled Journeys): I included “whispers” in my book—moments where I pose questions I can’t fully answer. For example, did enslaved children always know they were enslaved? These uncertainties invite readers to grapple with historical ambiguity.
Jenny Shaw (The Women of Rendezvous): While, yes, there are silences, archives are also full of fragments and snippets that we can work with. I never tried to say how any of these women felt because I cannot know when I do not know. There is a limit and the ethics of that of knowing. Where details were missing, I laid out possibilities rather than definitive answers.
Q: What surprised you most during your research?
Lori Ginzberg (Tangled Journeys): Discovering that Richard Cogdill and Sanders family members had social interactions with abolitionists in Philadelphia. It upended my assumptions about how pro- and anti-slavery sentiments played out in daily life.
Jenny Shaw (The Women of Rendezvous): Finding a court case from 1719 that confirmed the identity of Susannah Mingo’s son, Richard Mingo. It validated my casting a wide net while researching and ultimately, led me to realize that I could actually write this book.
Q: What advice do you have for historians working in this space?
Lori Ginzberg (Tangled Journeys): Read outside your field. Don’t limit yourself to what you think you “should” be reading. And always ask, “So what?”—why does this story matter?
Jenny Shaw (The Women of Rendezvous): Trust your instincts. Read widely and wildly. Be patient. History takes time to unfold, and even small fragments can lead to powerful discoveries.